Armstrong was a Church of God - General Conference cast off. The doctrine is similar to Witness doctrine. They have the same roots, though there is considerable animosity on the part of COGGC. Armstrong borrowed from Church of God Seventh Day and other small age to come sects too. He was never a witness, but he was just as nuts.
Old Goat
JoinedPosts by Old Goat
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22
Herbert W. Armstrong
by Band on the Run inhis stylized face keeps staring at me from an ad, asking if i want more information.
i know he ran a high control religion that had many defectors as the same time as many witnesses defected.
what was his game?.
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79
Watchtower falsification of its history
by jwfacts ini received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.
so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .
"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
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Old Goat
If that's supposed to be a picture of me you do need to photoshop it. He needs to be really old, with silver hair, balding on top, a bit chubby, quite tall, and maybe you should put a bit of a scowl on his face. Give him gold rimmed glasses. And that casual shirt has to go. White shirt, stripped school tie. A nice gray sweater would be nice. Give him the look that makes my students tremble. It's a no-nonsense, you're dog did not eat your homework and i know it, look.
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79
Watchtower falsification of its history
by jwfacts ini received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.
so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .
"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
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Old Goat
and sizemik ... you are right about "silly." I think we have a cultural difference here. Silly is not a strong word to me but quite mild. But I should have chosen another.
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79
Watchtower falsification of its history
by jwfacts ini received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.
so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .
"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
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Old Goat
An exposé of what? That the Society photoshops? That they're amateurish videographers? That they brag about their expertise in area where it does not exist? Did they purposefully remove the flags? Of course they did. Did they do it to evilly hide their history? Please! They did it (in my opinion) because they didn’t want a flood of letters asking about flags.
If you want to press the issue of how the Watchtower presents its history, look to more valid things. For instance, W. H. Conley and C. T. Russell’s involvement in the 19 th Century Faith Cure movement is nowhere discussed by Watchtower writers. The sex scandal involving Conley’s hand-picked Faith Cure house manager is outside of any story the Watchtower tells. That Russell’s prize convert, A. D. Jones, ran a charity that the newspapers characterized as a fraud is left unexplored as is his divorce for adultery. While these two events do not reflect directly on Russell, they at least show what sort of person he chose for an associate.
How about the polygamy scandals in Africa. This is a long-running story that started with the first Bible student in Africa, Edward Seton and continued in various places until the 1950s.
The Watchtower’s presentation of its history is mythology created to preserve the idea that Russell was divinely chosen. On this forum and elsewhere Russell is called an Adventist as if being an Adventist were somehow worse then being a Methodist. The claim is made that he lied when he denied ever having been one. In point of fact he was a One Faith believer from 1871 until he met Barbour and maintained most of his One Faith beliefs afterwards. Does this relieve him of scandal? Oh hell no. But making a false claim undermines “our side.”
I don’t even care if we find great faults. I care that the myth of Russell’s special anointing exists. I’ve pointed to the Truth History people before. Their blog is the best history site out there. The blog owner is a Witness, but he presents this stuff without a blink. How he can continue to see the Watchtower as the repository of the truth after doing this research, I do not know. That’s his problem, not mine. I think his book on Nelson Barbour is intensely interesting because it strips away myth and replaces it with historically verifiable detail. I came away from reading it with a sigh of relief. No great scandal is uncovered. But you don’t see an implicit claim that Russell was divinely led either. You have to ask to join the blog. He doesn’t ask who you are, and the rules are simple. Don’t rant, don’t copy his material, comment in a meaningful way when you can.
And Cedar, I though you were through with this. Apparently not. If you reasoned as badly as you do here while within the Watchtower organization, you probably had endless anger and never “got” anything right. Some things do not change. Of course I do not care if you “see” this bit of photoshopped propaganda. Does it prove the Watchtower wrong when it says that it is super accurate. Yes. Will it change anyone’s mind? Highly doubtful. Most active witnesses will shrug this off.
I am sympathetic with the complaint that the Watchtower people manipulate their history. I wish that those who post on that would focus on what they have written, or events they hide, instead of photos or illustrations that supposedly have hidden images. (Here’s a good place to say that I’ve seen the original painting behind some of the Watchtower illustrations. That stuff isn’t there.) It is much more effective to say, “Brother Smith, can you explain what the society meant when they wrote this?” (pointing to some half-assed, oddball claim) than it is to say, “Mom! Look! The left out the flags!” This is especially so because they have published the photo with the flags elsewhere.
A problem that “apostates” face is self-justification. We’ve left an organization to which we gave our lives for sometimes decades. We tend to feel a sort of ill defined guilt. For a few there should be guilt. There is a difference between getting tossed out on your ear for being a naughty boy and leaving because you found the doctrines untenable, the behaviours wrong, and the leadership hypocritical. We are led to find anything to justify leaving. That leaves them still in control of our lives. Do you want them to have that control? I don’t.
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79
Watchtower falsification of its history
by jwfacts ini received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.
so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .
"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
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Old Goat
Calling a post silly and calling the man silly are not the same thing.
If I were argumentative, I'd be on every post stating my case. That I've been registered here for five years and only posted 100 times indicates that I am not. I am interested in seeing the best arguments put forward. Weaker arguments cloud the issue.
There is nothing in what I said that suggests I want to dictate what people post here. If you read up you'll notice that I said that there is room here for all sorts of posts. I don't have to like them. I usually don't read past the initial post if I don't. But there are some who post here who have the talent and observation to write things that really matter. I hate to see that keen-eyed talent wasted on a triviality.
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79
Watchtower falsification of its history
by jwfacts ini received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.
so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .
"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
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Old Goat
No, i'm not DJEggNog. I don't read this forum consistently enough to know who that is. I stand by my opinion. This issue does not further thoughtful opposition to the Watch Tower.
If you look through my past comments you will see that my primary interest is in Watch Tower history. My past posts speak for themselves and should server to disabuse you of the opinion that i am someone else.
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79
Watchtower falsification of its history
by jwfacts ini received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.
so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .
"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
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Old Goat
Well, I could say, "I win and you lose" but that's not the point. And this isn't that sort of debate. I've hurt your feelings. It wasn't my intention to hurt anyone's feelings. However, this is a world of strong-willed, strong-minded people. You need to learn to live with that. If you are upset by the words "silly" and "petty" what will you do with a real debate?
Did you leave the watch tower because of hurt feelings? I don't expect an answer or explanation. The world is a hurtful place. Sometimes we're hurt by what is not intended to be hurful. I'm sure the original poster appreciates your defense. He didn't need to be defended. He's a big boy, and, though I called this post silly, he's a smart one too.
I am not your enemy. But I will note that the one calling names is you. As far as my wacky beliefs go, you don't know what I believe or why I hold the opinions I do. You're too busy protecting your recently made decision to leave. No one is faulting you for that decision -except maybe yourself.
I have the impression that you're fairly young. Hey! Everyone's young as far as I'm concerned. But I mean on the truly youngish side. Do not make life harder than it needs to be. People will always have opinions that differ from ours. That they have contrary opinions does not invalidate our beliefs or ourselves. Why do I suddenly feel like I need to parent you? How silly of me. I wish you well, Cedars. I think you have some hard lessons to learn, and I wish I could make that process easier for you. Unfortunately I cannot.
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79
Watchtower falsification of its history
by jwfacts ini received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.
so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .
"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
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Old Goat
No, Cedars, you're wrong. If this forum matters it is because sometimes we take up serious topics that do expose the Watch Tower for what it is. However, many of the threads here are less than serious. They have a place too. What bothers one person will not bother another. The watch tower is a paranoid, dictatorial organization. If you just want assurance that you made the right choice in leaving, you won't get it here, not in a meaninful way. That has to come from you and your conscience. If you want to help others to see it for what it is, then point to the things that matter. You cannot be happy if you wear your feelings on your sleeve.
This is not a matter if is he right or wrong. It's a matter of degree and effetiveness. And you may wish to note that I did not belittle his opinion. I said this is ineffective because it focuses on the insignificant. All sorts of nonsense gets posted here. Calling it what it is, is not a bad thing. Was Russell a mason and are masons in a conspiracy to rule the world? Does the design on a New York City Assembly Hall, a design that was there when the building was built as a theater way back when and that is protected by New York State law, proof that the Watch Tower is masonic? Is Russell's will as printed in the Watch Tower way back when valid or not? Can we sue the society for what happened in 1917? Do elders have cooties? Which Circuit Overseer did you like? Or like to hate. (Hey, I have my own list on that one.) All these things show up here. Sometimes they're entertaining. Sometimes they aren't worth a read.
The one who wishes to stifle debate here is you. Not me. You need to reasses just how important this all is to you. If you are seeking a place where only your feelings, wishes and beliefs are reflected, you've come to the wrong forum.
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79
Watchtower falsification of its history
by jwfacts ini received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.
so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .
"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
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Old Goat
Cedars - don't be silly. I no where suggested that he needed my approval for a post. I don't need your approval to express my opinion on this post either. You like this because it gives you a sense of self-justification. You don't need to seek justification for your rejection of watch tower teaching. Pure rationalism is grounds enough. I'm no attacking him for posting this. I'm saying we can do better. This post is 'preaching to the choir.' It's not something that will shake the faith of a believer.
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79
Watchtower falsification of its history
by jwfacts ini received an email with the following information that is worth sharing.. the 2011 yearbook goes to great lengths to elevate the truthfulness of watchtower information in even minor details, and criticise information from other sources.
so it is telling that the 2010 "jehovah's witnesses - faith in action, part 1" has omitted an important element of their history when re-enacting the 1922 cedar point convention.. under the heading "tracing all things with accuracy" the 2011 yearbook states: .
"jesus said that the faithful slave would be discreet in giving the domestics "their food at the proper time.
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Old Goat
I know what the watch tower says the prophetic significance is. When I was a new witness we were still circulating Rutherford's Light books. It's full of that nonsense. I own copies of the seven resolutions. You're missing the point. No one except someone who is desperate to find anything - anything at all - to criticize will see this as significant. You're holding the watch tower to a standard the history channel does not meet.
What is really wrong with the Watch Tower's presentation of its history is that it is contrived myth. The Watch Tower is guilty of altering its history by selective omission. It's guilty of poor and changing research. Document those things. Focusing on a truly insignificant part of the recent CD makes us look petty. It IS petty. There are better and less petty faults with watch tower publications than this.